Vanilla, it is definitely stealing. It doesn't matter whether you can prove it wouldn't hurt anyone.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that you're not stealing, it's a dead end. You get onto a very bad slippery slope.

Causing harm has nothing to do with whether something is stealing or not.

alright then, i steal my software. i'm a thief. oh well.... those companies have a lot more money than i do so i don't feel bad about it.

There you go.
As long as you are aware that it's indeed theft and that you don't try to kid yourself.

Having said that, I personaly think it's acceptable to try a software with a warez version, Still ileegal, sure, but in my mind and conscience, acceptable, as long as the software is bought in the end if it's kept.
I do that often with games. Not every game has a trial version, and 75$ is a lot of money to throw by the window if I don't like the game in the end. I usually downoad, try it out, if I like it, I go buy it.

Note that one thing I often do with games, and it's perfectly legal, is group-buy it. 3 or 4 friends get together, split the money, then one plays it, when he's done, he gives it to the next friend, etc. It's legal, because we don't make copies of the CD and at no time is the game installed simultaneously on different computers. Since a lot of games are played once during 2 to 3 weeks, then never touch it again when it's been completed, this is a cheaper and fair solution.

paxx, don't forget that most of the high priced games need the cd to play it. It will load toma point but you still have to put the cd in to play. So it doesn't mater how many people pay, only one can play at a time.

you could always get a no-cd crack... and like paxx does with games i've done with audio cds, i download them befeor they even come out and then when they do i go buy em.

WiseOldMan, as I said, at no time is the game installed at the same time on different computers. We only play one at a time, that's why I say it's a fair and legal solution to high priced games.

With the 'GrandPrix' series of games, there is the ability to 'patch' or add different 'skins' for cars of later seasons and other tracks, etc, not included in the original release....much like the different skins not included with the WB release....but to use the patching software you need also to run a No-CD patch or the poor proggy gets confused, so for that reason I use the No-CD, and I rather have full-installs and not bother with CD-swapping anyway.
My nephew called me and mentioned he had a 'copy' for me of GrandPrix 4 [just days after its release.....I said fine, but I'll be buying it anyway [$80 AUS] as I 'know' I'll like it....[I'd already got some patches, the trailer, walls, and the No-CD in anticipation].
Only two problems with it....
1. AAAAAAARGH, my system needs to be upgraded....CPU and AGP port speeds are too damn slow....
2. I personally have pushed these cars....[even on my own, on occasion] and there's no way a single race official can push your wreck that has lost 3 wheels and its bum is dragging on the ground.
Now if only they can 'accurately' sim the dynamics of OUR input....that'd be nice....

paxx: I know. I was agreeing with you. Just pointing out how the companys tried to fix the ripping of their games. Thats all.

why do companies even bother trying to add all these protection schemes and crap? they will never be able to stop cracks. in the program i made i didn't put too much effor in protection cause anyone who wants to crack it will either be able t themselves or get one from a site after it's been cracked by an experienced cracker. by the way i was able to crack desktop x 0.85 by myslef and i suck at it...

what's all this talk of crackers? i thought racial epithets went out of style with archie bunker and mood rings!

vanilla ice.. [hehe.. sorry, couldn't help myself.. i witnessed his original rise to 'fame y fortune.'] protection 'schemes' work because they stop a massive amount of theft. not all theft, but a vast majority.

also, you might not want to talk about doing something like that to a dev's software at one of their own sites.. hint hint, say no more, a nod's as good as a wink to blind bat.. ;l

uh, i cracked it for educational purposes. i never put the crack on any website or anything, i just wanted to learn to debug so that i could do it to my own program when it needs it.

and no i don't think they stop a majority of theft, just look at any good cracks archive and they have at least one crack for every programd and version of that program imaginable. they've yet to make a program that can't be cracked and they never will.

well, i just found a crack for my program... but i'm not really mad, i'm actually kinda honored... i just was hoping there wouldn't be one til it actually took off and i was making money off of it. i'm all for warez as long as the developers are still making money and they're not losing much, but for companies just starting out it's a little different. oh well, like i said people who get cracks don't buy software anyways...

I guess they don't have to buy if they get it for free. Like you said, they just use it until they don't need it anymore.

Vanilla Ice, in the grand scheme of life, things are so interlinked together that it's very hard to imagine what would happen if you changed one link in the chain.
For example. Say you download a warez copy of Photoshop. It's safe to assume that you would never buy Photoshop because you could never afford it. So then, no harm done to anyone? Think again... What would you have done if there were no Photoshop to download in the first place, no warez, no cracks, nothing, just the legal stuff. What would you do? If you really need a graphics program, it's safe to assume you would get and purchase one you can afford, for example Paint Shop Pro. Therefore, because you downlaoded a warez version of Photoshop, Jasc Software lost a sale. See? You are indeed hurting somebody. And you are not even hurting the big company who don't care since they never could get you as a client in the first place. You are hurting a smaller company who is trying to survive through these hard times.

Same goes for just about everything. Don't assume you don't hurt anybody, because chances are that you actually do.

no i still wouldn't have bought psp cause as you all said there are free or dirt-cheap solutions too. maybe if i could afford it, which i can't cause psp is $200, and i NEEDED it i would buy it, but the reason i have downloaded copies is cause i don't NEED them, i just use them for a couple small websites i run as a hobby.

but your scenario of no warez or cracks is totally unbelievable anyways, it's like having guns with no murders.

by the way i use paint shop pro cause it's a hell of a lot better than photoshop in my opinion.